So, this encounter happened while I was offline, and seeing this forwarded to my email, I waited a while because… Really. I was already having a bad day, PMSing and everything, and there’s really no need to be so rude when you want customer service. After a while of ignoring it, though, I started to feel bad. I try to have good customer service when I possibly can, but it took a lot for me to not treat her the same way.
This person had purchased a tattoo pack. Plain and simple. It said it was a tattoo pack, and stated that the skins shown were not made by me. It even stated who the skins were made by. It even stated which skins they were by name! It even says it includes clothing layers as well as tattoo layers, and one could look into the inventory of the box before pressing the final purchase confirmation, to ensure that it includes what it says it does.
(All names are changed)
MorningFlower Sapphire: (Saved Fri Mar 25 13:08:15 2011) growls: hay… not everyone is on viewer 2… the stuff in your shop won’t work for my viewer 1… PUT UP A SIGN THAT SAYS VIEWER 2 ONLY PRODUCTS!!!!!
So I thought… oooookaaaaaay…. As a Phoenix viewer user who also occasionally vacations to Imprudence, and sometimes Ascent, I’m fully aware that not everyone uses viewer 2! Besides, if I put up a sign that said my things were “Viewer 2 only” then that would be a lie.
MorningFlower Sapphire: (Saved Fri Mar 25 13:10:27 2011) YEAH RIGHT… l$300 OUT THE WINDOW… THANKS A LOT
MorningFlower Sapphire: (Saved Fri Mar 25 13:11:29 2011) oh sorry… 370… good thing I didn’t buy the 1200 skin
MorningFlower Sapphire: (Saved Fri Mar 25 13:14:58 2011) oh shit! I can’t even give it to a friend… that sucks!!! arrrr THIS IS PISSING ME OFF
Maple Bacon: Mkay. First off, I do not use viewer 2. I use either phoenix, or imprudence. Ascent and dolphin also support many viewer 2 features. Secondly, you did not purchase a skin, it does not state that it is a skin. Thirdly, it comes with clothing layers, which do work on all viewers, otherwise, you would not have clothing to wear. You wear the undershirt/underpants/whatever underneath your clothing (if you wear any). The package even says “Clothing layers + tattoo layer” and tattoo layers do not work on viewer 1, but clothing does. Also, there is no 1200 skin, that is a fatpack of 25 skins (4 skintones, 5 makeup options each)
MorningFlower Sapphire: (Saved Fri Mar 25 15:24:10 2011) I see… and I rest my case… the way you show your goods is confusing at best and misleading at worst… I thought I was buying a doll skin, not clothing… and fyi… when I try to wear any of it, it says I need viewer 2
MorningFlower Sapphire: (Saved Fri Mar 25 15:27:03 2011) know what? I’m in your shop looking at the product I bought (picture sent) NOWHERE on this ad does it say ANYTHING about the contents being CLOTHING! NO… IN FACT… it says: Skins: Mascarad: Adonis (Ghost); Cherry Girl:27C (Anger),,, JOINTS ARE (MB)! SKINS ARE NOT…e
Quoting an article that merely repeats what I had said previously, while trying to argue? And how does it say nothing about being clothing, when the product name specifically says “TATTOO + CLOTHING LAYERS”? And specifically says, right where s/he quoted, that it is not a skin? I even added where to get the skins (because they’re good skins and I believe the creators deserve more traffic and sales!)
MorningFlower Sapphire: (Saved Fri Mar 25 15:34:04 2011) I wanted a skin to wear under my clothing… not clothing that looks like skin that I parade my nakedness in, and I cannot wear anyplace except an adult sim… give me a break, and quit treating me like I’m stupid… I didn’t spend that L10 to show you your own pic… I did so to show it to Linden Lab if you continue to claim your advertise clothing
I may have been a bit blunt in my response but I don’t really think I inferred that s/he was stupid.. Maybe the fact that I was thinking it while I was typing may have crossed over, somehow. Anyways, after all of this, I really thought I was being trolled! I mean, maybe it would be understandable if this person made their account before tattoo layers were introduced, but no! This person’s account was made only a year after my own, surely they must have known that before the special tattoo layer was implimented, we all used transperent clothing layers underneath of our clothes to get this effect! I really honestly… Thought I was being trolled!
Maple Bacon: Are you…. Are you seriously trolling me? You bought “(MB)! Doll Joint -Clothing- + Tattoo Layers” And it says that the skins are not by me, it says who the skins are by, and says that the joints are what’s made by me. And are you trying to say that you can’t wear an undershirt underneath a shirt or a jacket? And that you can’t wear underpants under your pants layer? This is how tattoos worked before tattoo layers were introduced, you wore them on transperent clothing layers underneath your clothes. I keep that option in there for people who cannot use tattoo layers, but include tattoo layers for those who prefer them because they’re more convenient. And the clothing does not replicate skin, it puts the lines on your elbows, knees, hips, neck, wrists, fingers etc etc so on and so forth. There is nothing skin-like about it, and does not require nakedness.
So maybe my last response was a little rude, but I seriously thought I was getting trolled, and really did not want to have to log in again (I logged out after each response; I had other things to take care of.). I could not fathom how someone could be so confused. S/he doesn’t seem like ESL, so I’ll just chalk it up to unwillingness to read things carefully.
I muted this person quickly after this, because I really got tired of explaining this. I had basically said the same thing twice, but the second time I was more specific, since s/he didn’t understand the first time.
But, also…. It left me wondering… Why are there still a few people on the old SL viewer? It’s no longer supported, does not receive new features (and has some problems seeing some new features), so why? I can understand not wanting to use SL2.0 because it’s ugly and clumsy and just bleh, but to not use a well-supported and updated third party viewer? Is there something I’m missing here?
That person had no excuse for being angry, honestly.
In regards to those still using LL 1.23 I guess they are creatures of habit or afraid their out of date already laggy PC will explode into permanent blue screen of death, these are some of the same people who don’t run regular computer health checks or clear cash. And there are some that don’t trust 3rd party viewers especially after the whole Emerald Viewer fiasco.
I love the new betas LL throws at us, now with enhanced physics and mega butt-boob jiggle making SL that much more real and exciting.
I think this is a prime example of how far out of it some SL residents are. I would have told her to update her viewer and have a nice day.
She had every right to be angry. Not at the OP but yes i would be angry too. Doesn’t make it right to contact her in a puff, but i can see why she did. But also maybe the designer, instead of talking down to her could of just talked to her and it wouldn’t of gotten any worse. As “simple” as things seem to you, they aren’t to everyone else. Little compassion goes a long way and maybe you could of kept a costumer. Best advertisement is word of mouth and you didn’t bother to make sure she understood you. Some people haven’t switched viewers because maybe their machines cant handle it. OMG grab a rope, with a sloping economy someone cant afford a new computer to play a game. Lets run her off the grid.~sarcasm over~ Please get over yourself. You came off more a troll then she did.
Id also like to see the advertisement in question. To many a time have i bought something and got the wrong thing because of the small print “simply and plainly” wrote on the package. Im not a noob either.
Ugh.. This creator did exactly what most of us sane people would have done if we were in her shoes. This customer obviously couldn’t handle reason, or understand simplicity. Even if the customer hadn’t updated to V2 or a TPV that uses tattoo layers..there were clothing layers included! Everyone knows how to use clothing layers so there was not an excuse for her/him to be a total douche to the creator. And the name of the product clearly indicates that it is a tattoo not a skin…it’s not the creator’s fault the customer wasn’t paying attention to what they bought. I think the creator did everything right, had I been in her shoes I probably wouldn’t have reacted so politely. The customer isn’t allowed a refund for being an idiot. The End.
If a customer contacts you while yelling at you, I don’t think many people would be calm in return. Spending 300L on an item doesn’t give you the right to be rude to anyone. If you want to be upset (which I still don’t understand why? The tattoo was provided on every single layer possible, so no excuses for that either), then she can talk to someone calmly if she needs help.
The package, as the author describes it, has the contents labeled. How much more of a warning does the customer need?
Kim sounds a lot like that seriously confused customer! Anyway, I don’t think there was anything wrong with your customer service. You treat people the way you want to be treated. Approaching you with her purchase issues was rude and uncalled for. I am surprised you handled it as well as you did! Even if you were to baby talk to her way through the difference between skin, tattoos and clothing (actually, you pretty much did do that), I doubt she would have been very open to listening anyway. You did what you could do. Let her try and report your business practices, there was nothing that you did wrong. She is just probably pissed that she bought tattoos instead of skin. It makes me wonder how people like that can even function in SL. II mean, it seems as if they can’t understand the basics and keep up with the technology info. Btw, you definitely do not need customers like that! I would just assume close my business if I had to deal with idiots like that all day!
there are some strange things going on lately … it took us some while to get to a consensus that, if there is a problem, you check creator profile whether to IM or notecard or redelivery-terminal … then you copy your transaction-history and state what you want .. simple, easy …
but since half a year i get the weirdest IMs … “hi, I bought a skirt in your shop and it was not delivered” (exactly this same IM i got a good 40 times up to now) … no item name, no transaction-history … and in 90% of all cases they bought it on marketplace … and got their money refunded automatically when delivery failed … but 70% of these people don’t believe this and even ARed me for not giving them the item or the money ‘back’.
I guess since the marketplace became integral part of SL the perception of the ‘act of shopping’ changed in a (not good) way.
Second example out of many others … offline IM: “hi, i have an issue with an item i bought from your shop, please contact me asap”… no item name, no transaction-history … re offline IM: “what’s the issue” … rere offline IM: “hi, you are still not online, i need you to resolve this” … rerere offline IM: “resolve WHAT?, please tell me what the issue is even when i am NOT online?” … rererere offline IM: “this is the worst customer service I ever experienced, i will tell all my friends about it” … rerererere offline IM: “ABOUT WHAT????” … this happened a good 10 times in the last months …
and i could go on and on now … something weird is going on …
and concerning the “viewer 2 only” stuff … i added to my store-policy that i only give support for the latest official viewer … as LL does …
Even if the print weren’t ginormous it was obviously there because the customer quoted it back to the creator/owner, besides it’s the responsibility of the consumer to know what it is they are spending their lindens on, before making that purchase. I don’t create or sell anything so I am not speaking as a shop owner/creator here, either, simply using common consumer sense.I don’t understand how the customer has a right to be angry at all.
Yeah crazy bag lady. Ive posted numerous times on here in the past just so i could bitch about this one post. Please get over yourself too!
What i get sick of is creators with this oh well fuck you, i have your money and your stupid mentality. She even stated she didnt give the time of day to this person and logged off between each interaction with her. That, umm whats the word, suck ass? Few minutes could of cleared the whole thing up. So to answer the op question on what she was missing, COMPASSION!!! English is not the first language in this game and things that seem simple to us doesnt to someone doesnt understand it very well. You never know and she didnt take the time to find out. She spent more time bitching to write this post then she did to clear up a misunderstanding. Thats just sorry. No matter who was right, thats just sorry. So yeah go cry over on plurk and let all those sheep kiss your poor offended ass. Grow thicker skin or quit designing. Its that “simple”.
I was actually doing a search about my viewer and tattoo layers and came across this posting. I read all of it and even the comments made to it and was actually really shocked at the way a creator treated a customer. I’m fairly new to SL, but had a good teacher and caught on a little quicker than some. I realize getting yelled at and approached about an item a customer purchased and isn’t happy with is never a good situation or conversation to have, but overall it’s that customer and others that keep your business going. How you treat your customers determines how well your business will do. I for one if I had got treated that way, would never do business there again and if I had any say about it, no one I knew would either. I have been very fortunate in my shopping experiences and with dealing with creators. I have to agree with Kim on a lot of aspects, she has a point, logging off between each interaction is just rude. All you do then is just give the customer more time to get pissed off about it. Customer service should be the number one priority for creators, cuz without customers you have no business. All too often I have read comments made about poor customer service and quite frankly those are the shops I stay away from. The last thing I want to do is think about having to deal with a creator with a poor attitude when I have a purchase issue. I do realize that sometimes dealing with upset customers is not easy, I’ve worked in costumer service jobs before, I do know this, but to be a good business person and keep your good standards with your customers, you have to suck it up. Geez what happened to the saying, the customer is always right…lol
I will say this however, when you purchase something and you don’t have an understanding or misunderstand what a description is saying, perhaps it’s best to ask someone prior to buying it.
WOW, you talk compassion Kim but your really rude! Even people that have english as a 2nd language can understand the basics of SL, and if they can’t they shouldn’t play SL. Some of us have a RL to attend to and I get not wanting to waste time on someone that just doesn’t get it and never will. The customer kept going I’m right your wrong and wasn’t listening. Who wants to mess with that? And IMO the customer wasn’t too bright if they couldn’t look into what they were buying and say oh this is a undershirt layer and not a skin. It even has a freaking icon to indicate what kind of layer it is. Designers put up with a LOT to make ok money. Some make decent L off their items in sl but a lot don’t make enough to pay for their land. You should learn some manners and stop sticking up for people that clearly don’t need sticking up for. And she did take the time to explain it to her, NOT once but twice! The girl was just blantantly ignoring what she was saying. It’s sad if you’ve been in SL for over a year and still can’t tell the difference between a shirt layer and a skin layer. And FYI most comps can handle a viewer that supports tat layers, theres so many viewers out there for even older comps that you can get the layers. So imo is just being lazy and afraid that is going to be different. Unless your on sl 2, its going to be pretty much the same layout on another viewer. And note I didn’t call you names, even though you have a rotten attitude and a low level of maturity I am being respectful! Maybe you should try it sometime instead of spouting off curse words to make you feel like your big and bad on the internet.
umm.. no. she totally explained in detail, on top of what was written in her ad, how to wear the tattoo and what it was and what was included with it. if the customer had been ‘hi i’m confused as to what i bought’ i’m sure the designer would have had a bit better attitude, but the customer was rude, completely ignored what the designer explained and kept on bitching. i would have logged off too after every response, to stop myself from yelling at the the ignorant idiot. you don’t need to know english as a first language to figure out clothing layers ffs.
Yeah, pretty sure this Kim person is either the same person or someone who has been in similar situations to the person in question.
I also think you’re reading waaaay too deeply into this, or if you’re the person in question then you’ve taken things waaaay too personally. Otherwise, I’m not sure how you could be offended that someone logs out after doing what they needed to do in SL? Sure, some people use SL business to pay their RL bills, and therefor SL takes precedence, like an RL business would. But this isn’t the case for most creators out there. For most creators, it is merely a game, and if they have something more important going on in RL such as taking care of their family, dealing with their RL job, or simply having somewhere else to be, rather than be in SL all day hanging on to everyone’s every last word, then that’s that!
I really think Kim, as well as the person in the original post, should learn to treat others how they wish to be treated, and not to expect others to do things they themselves would not (and do not) do.
I have never had a problem getting customer service in SL from the creators I buy from. When I have an issue, even if it’s just me having a stupid day (which happens to all of us, admit it), I put all the info needed into a POLITE notecard, explaining the problem and what product it was. Trust me, I’ve had my stupid moments and I’m no noob, those moments where you just didn’t read the instruction notecard close enough or you didn’t look at closely at the ad as you should have. It happens, it’s nothing to get bent out of shape for. When you approach anyone with guns drawn, they are going to immediately go on the defensive. Be polite and they will return the politeness.
Kim, not quite- you need to grow thicker skin or stop buying. Its that “simple”. She shouldve been “compassionate” to a rude, offensive idiot? Doesnt work that way, karma baby. Just cause you buy something doesnt make the creator your punchbag. As it was she did explain, twice, but the customer was unable or unwilling to understand something as simple as 2+2=4. You just cant help people that mentally retarded.
I would’ve just given the customer back the money if it was that obvious that the customer was clueless about what he/she bought. I definitely wouldn’t have posted my interaction with the customer online even with the names changed. Of course, there are rude customers – I deal with them all the time in RL. Unfortunately, where I work in RL, I can’t just give back the money because I would be violating various regulations. In that situation, the customer would have to take it to the regulating organization or sue. I’m stuck trying to figure out how to make a customer happy with my hands tied.
However, in SL, I try to disengage with rudeness as much as virtually possible. If they’re not happy, they can have the Lindens back. You don’t really lose any money doing this, you just lose rude customers. However, what you get is respect and credibility from customers who will continue to do business with you because you’re reliable.
It amazes me the ignorance and attitude people can have when really if she would have just been nice, well, It would have ended differently.
Seriously, people? The designer already said she had been having a bad day, and yes, she was terse at worst in her replies to the customer. Terse does not equal rude. If you think she should be fawning all over one person who bought her stuff, you’ve lost your mind. There is a degree of appreciation a designer automatically should show their customers, as they are the reason the designer keeps on what they are doing, but this was ridiculous. I guarantee you had that person come at me with those responses, they would have gotten ONE notecarded response from me, clearly and sweetly detailing the items that were included in the package and including the original ad that was on the box the customer purchased. Should the customer insist that they were right, blah blah blah, why argue? It’s just lindens! State that because you understand things happen sometimes, you are refunding their money and you hope that this can be avoided in the future, and wish them well. That does not place blame, it simply is stating the obvious, that something went awry in the purchase. Doesn’t matter whose fault it was, just resolve it. If they harass you beyond that, ban them, mute them, whatever. Peace of mind is worth so much more than this!